Curse

Myria · Jan 10, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

If they're going to keep the favor system -- and it's quite clear they are, doing otherwise would require swallowing a bit of their overly prodigious pride -- why not lobby to at least make it bi-directional? The best suggestion I've seen is to make it so every time someone kills the Lich, Shiro, or Abbadon, someone in halls from another region randomly dies. Alternatively, though far less entertaining, every time someone kills a big-bad someone in halls from their own region randomly gets a 2% moral boost. I'm sure there are other ideas people could come up with, or even a set of effects that are randomly chosen. I'm sure PvPers would welcome the change, after all 'Adapt' seems to be their favorite word, and for PvEers it would add some entertaining possibilities.

Of course make sure that whatever happens is flashed across the screen of everyone in the game. I don't know about you, but "Rolly Polly's team has killed Shiro, as a consequence Jade Doe in The Hall of Heroes has died a horrible freakin' death." would be a lot more entertaining than "SomeGroupYou'veNeverHeardOf [AndDon'tCare About] has won the 20 trillionth game in the hall of heroes today and, shock of shocks, keeps the favor of the gods for Europe for now and forevermore.".

Shanaeri Rynale · Jan 10, 2007, 04:34 PM // 16:34

The favor system has always been a broken game mechanic, when America had favor for much of the time I logged the hours in which each territory got favor every day for 3 months.

This was'nt because I wanted the EU to win favor more, but to demonstrate the sillyness of the idea.

Japan has had favor once for 4 hours in over a year of playing, Taiwan a few more times in about the same timescale.

The PvE>PvP link sounds cool on paper, but in the near 2 years it's been going it has proven to be the biggest or certainly top 3 player issues. Reconnects and party formation were the others I believe.

AN have implemented several measures to prevent PvP players from needing to PvE in order to get to all game content, and yet the link still exists the other way around. PvP can buy unlock packs, the new equipment selection system makes the need to run a PvE char in high end pvp meaningless. In fact you can now buy PvP only versions of GW

The other factor to consider is that it stops multi-region teams forming up, I would have loved to have played with some American players in fow/uw and are yet prevented from doing so..

Fow and UW are core quest zones, which means they will be there in future chapters; which in turn means favor will be with us unless it's changed

PvP HA players don't care one jot about favor, so as a pvp objective it is meaningless.

So that being the case, why still have the link there? It really makes no sense at all, only to remain(and i'm including the factions elite missions here) as the highest cause of PvE disatisfaction that now exists.

It's demise is long overdue, so please consign it to the same file as attribute refund points.

lyra_song · Jan 10, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I still stand by my opinion, that the WaW is a good concept, and its only failure is attracting the proper audience.

Anet's been listening to the audience that it has now, and essentially eroding its original game design of a PvPvE integrated game.

examples: Balthazar Points, PvP unlock packs, Sigil Trader.

They are breaking the bonds that tied PvP and PvE together one by one.

Perhaps the WaW might be removed or changed, but i still like the original format.

--------------
On a side note, GW has both PvE and PvP and it really saddens me that it has to split.

I wish players on both sides were more open, less anal and didn't have such condenscending attitudes about the other side.

Le sigh.

< /idealist>

Oh well, so the game evolves and changes. With the advent of PvE only skills (Sunspear signet anyone?), and less and less need to PvE to PvP (PvP unlock packs), its only a matter of time before the players who hate PvP will never have to worry about it and the players who hate PvE will never have to worry about it.

seperate but equal...meh....

midnight caretaker · Jan 10, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

If anets intention of favor was to get pve to go pvp is flawed because it makes pve go to HA not pvp just the one aspect of it. If this was the intent in the first place there is a better way to go about it, have entrance to fow/uw be earned by balt faction. This way if you are a pve char and want access to fow /uw you would go do any form of pvp get some balt faction. I say 50 k total donated to the priest of balt would be sufficient to have a new person test th water a little in pvp. Once the 50k faction has been donated the you get access. This would possibly turn some people on to pvp or if they dont like it they got their 50k donated so the dont have to worry about it and can go back to pve.

Let players play the game how they want to, dont force us to play it how you want us to.

edited from 25k to 50k

ChaoticCoyote · Jan 10, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

No links?, Battle Isle is for all campaigns including Elona, elona has the sunspear Arena too, no its nothing new but its still a link to PvP.

In Elona, there is no PvE content that I can not reach because of PvP. The existence of PvP is not the same as *requiring* PvP to play PvE. Unlike Tyria and Cantha, I can play through all of Elona, including "end game" content, without stepping into an arena or waiting for someone else to succeed at PvP.

And that's a good thing.

Muk Utep · Jan 10, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

"People will always find things to complain about" - yes, and I prefer it to be serious concerns about the game, rather than pointless negative comments toward other forum users. There's not much purpose in creating threads about the good sides of the game, which is why much of the Guru is used to address real or perceived negatives in the game. You are not the thought police, and constructive discussion should not be discouraged.

"The game is not about farming, who cares about UW/FoW" - the issue is the same for people who just want to see those areas. People do not necessarily go there to farm (although many do) and this is a part of the game people have bought so they have a right to see it. The core of the problem, to me at least, is that two parts of the game that have nothing practical in common (PvE/farming vs. competitive PvP) are linked in this way. The ones who win favor for their region often don't care about it in the least, while the ones who do care are often not the ones willing/able to win it.

"Favor hogging was reversed x months ago, look who's whining now" - most of those who play now didn't even play back then, and most of those who played back then no longer play. It doesn't matter at all if/when the tides changed, and most of this discussion is not about who has the most right to have favor, it's about an illogical system and how it could be improved.

KESKI · Jan 10, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

In Elona, there is no PvE content that I can not reach because of PvP. The existence of PvP is not the same as *requiring* PvP to play PvE. Unlike Tyria and Cantha, I can play through all of Elona, including "end game" content, without stepping into an arena or waiting for someone else to succeed at PvP.

And that's a good thing.

SF, Titan quest and Tomb in Tyria
Both Elite in Cantha
They are all end-game highend content, and they get nothing to do with pvp...
(Elites in Cantha has nothing to do with pvp or pve but more to do with Faction Farm ...sad but true

, or you can have some nice friends

I too love the World At War idea, its the reason I played GW the first place, and why I insist on putting equal amount of time on both PVE and PVP. However it clearly isn't working for some people.

WAW idea is like communism...both sound so good in paper, yet dont work on human

Because most of us are selfish jerks

so ya, I agree some adjustment is needed on the current system, but just an adjustment, not throw it to garbage can

pingu666 · Jan 10, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

just have fow/uw open to everyone, all the time, *but* limit the time spent per account per day or something (3-4 hours) so the mad farmers dont farm 24/7

<madfarmers>ah ha!, i just need several accounts muahahaha

ainkami · Jan 10, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Why America doesn't have favor?
PVPer at HA don't care about favor or HA loot.
-Favor means little to those who don't FOW/UW.
-Loot is awful. Sigil prices is way down from before. Gold non-inscribable weapons doesn't help either.

Most of the PVPers in HA are just PUG or hard core fame famers. Much harder to hold halls with 6 player team. Must use a holding build which decreases fame farming efficiency.

Why PVEer don't play HA?
*excessive long group formation time. >15min is common. 30-60min is not unheard of.
*excessive losses. groups not ranked based on skill. a group of pve will have absolutely no chance and people tend to rage quit after losses. After first person rage quits, more quit because they don't want to wait for ~15min for a new person only to lose again in battle.
*Need third party software like vent or teamspeak.

Sarevok Thordin · Jan 10, 2007, 06:51 PM // 18:51

YOU GOTTA FIGHT

FOR YOUR RIGHT

TO FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRMMMMMMMMM UW/FOW

I think that sums up the thought behind WaW

Macktar Wang · Jan 10, 2007, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myria

Of course make sure that whatever happens is flashed across the screen of everyone in the game. I don't know about you, but "Rolly Polly's team has killed Shiro, as a consequence Jade Doe in The Hall of Heroes has died a horrible freakin' death." would be a lot more entertaining than "SomeGroupYou'veNeverHeardOf [AndDon'tCare About] has won the 20 trillionth game in the hall of heroes today and, shock of shocks, keeps the favor of the gods for Europe for now and forevermore.".

This made me laugh. I needed that today.

Not sure if that is the best idea, but that would be funny to see popping up on my screen.

Shanaeri Rynale · Jan 10, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

YOU GOTTA FIGHT

FOR YOUR RIGHT

TO FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRMMMMMMMMM UW/FOW

I think that sums up the thought behind WaW

Actually it should be...

YOU GOTTA FIGHT

FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S RIGHT

TO FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRMMMMMMMMM UW/FOW

Big_Iron · Jan 10, 2007, 07:23 PM // 19:23

You know what would be nice? Instead of a double XP weekend or a double drop weekend, have an "Open UW/Fow Weekend." Then Anet could see how many people actually do love going to these areas. I, for one, love it and I'm not a farmer. I just enjoy doing the missions and the team work when you get a really good team together.

gul dan · Jan 10, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

i don't think an event is what is needed...

people enter events just because they are events, not because they really enjoy...

for instance: i like to capture elite skills, i'm a Elite Skill Hunter (5)

i know people that are going to capture elites at the event, but don't even care about it, they unlock skills at PvP, but they are like "wow, double XP, let's cap!!!"

Pynne · Jan 10, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myria

If they're going to keep the favor system -- and it's quite clear they are, doing otherwise would require swallowing a bit of their overly prodigious pride -- why not lobby to at least make it bi-directional? The best suggestion I've seen is to make it so every time someone kills the Lich, Shiro, or Abbadon, someone in halls from another region randomly dies. Alternatively, though far less entertaining, every time someone kills a big-bad someone in halls from their own region randomly gets a 2% moral boost. I'm sure there are other ideas people could come up with, or even a set of effects that are randomly chosen. I'm sure PvPers would welcome the change, after all 'Adapt' seems to be their favorite word, and for PvEers it would add some entertaining possibilities.

Of course make sure that whatever happens is flashed across the screen of everyone in the game. I don't know about you, but "Rolly Polly's team has killed Shiro, as a consequence Jade Doe in The Hall of Heroes has died a horrible freakin' death." would be a lot more entertaining than "SomeGroupYou'veNeverHeardOf [AndDon'tCare About] has won the 20 trillionth game in the hall of heroes today and, shock of shocks, keeps the favor of the gods for Europe for now and forevermore.".

ROFL!!!

That has got to be one bests posts I have ever read. Thanks for the chuckle.

Though I don't currently care much for UW or FoW, I probably would be more interested in them if I could just go there anytime I wanted. I would love to see them just do away with the favour system completely.

Blackest Rose · Jan 10, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

I rarely go to UW/FOW since I can't due to favor on an american server.

It's a pity really as I like those areas of the game.

After reading all the posts I like the compromise ones the best which is have them open for a few hours per region regardless of favor and then have the rest of the time be determined by PVP.
I personally like the 2 aspects of the game tied so I'd be fine with a compromise in timescale rather than a scrappage. I could live with that.

You could even move the "open hours" every day so that you give people working during the night a chance for instance.
I really feel sorry for those regions who never have favor though.... wow all that content locked out. It borders on discrimation based on nationality.
Is that what Anet wants?

There's one thing for certain though - I love PVE and hate PVP.
There is nothing that Anet could do to make me play PVP.
If I'm locked out of content that makes me sad but in no way does it encourage me to start playing PVP to unlock my PVE content. There's a flaw in Anet's plan there...

Esprit · Jan 10, 2007, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myria

If they're going to keep the favor system -- and it's quite clear they are, doing otherwise would require swallowing a bit of their overly prodigious pride -- why not lobby to at least make it bi-directional? The best suggestion I've seen is to make it so every time someone kills the Lich, Shiro, or Abbadon, someone in halls from another region randomly dies. Alternatively, though far less entertaining, every time someone kills a big-bad someone in halls from their own region randomly gets a 2% moral boost. I'm sure there are other ideas people could come up with, or even a set of effects that are randomly chosen. I'm sure PvPers would welcome the change, after all 'Adapt' seems to be their favorite word, and for PvEers it would add some entertaining possibilities.

Of course make sure that whatever happens is flashed across the screen of everyone in the game. I don't know about you, but "Rolly Polly's team has killed Shiro, as a consequence Jade Doe in The Hall of Heroes has died a horrible freakin' death." would be a lot more entertaining than "SomeGroupYou'veNeverHeardOf [AndDon'tCare About] has won the 20 trillionth game in the hall of heroes today and, shock of shocks, keeps the favor of the gods for Europe for now and forevermore.".

Haha, that's a good post. I like the idea. You'd definately get many many more people doing end game quests missions. I would say not include Shiro, because that can be done fairly quickly.

When the game first came out, I do remember America holding favor for the better part of the day, and when Europe had it, it was kind of a surprise. Now that the tables have turned, people are belly aching again. So, in a half a year, Europe's prominent groups that have been holding Halls might lose interest or an American guild will start winning more.

Though, I do wish that FoW/UW access was less dependant on favor. The idea I liked in this thread, was about charging more for access... 1k if your region has favor, 3k or 5k if your region does not. For groups that do want to go on quests or Forge runs, taking that hit is not such a big deal, compared to 24/7 farmers.

Almighty Burritos · Jan 10, 2007, 08:22 PM // 20:22

There is not much difference between us and Europe, other than accents, and when its the afternoon here it's morning there, or something like that. But I feel that the only vital difference is that they simply outsmart us. America just doesn't have as many good players as it used to. It's human nature: we do something because we feel it is exciting and different, and then when we get bored of it, we stop(or because we are forced to, but that's a different story). The great guilds of the past split and thought about how repetitive PvP was getting. Now here comes the people that remain oblivious to PvP, because guild wars does not start the game with a PvP tutorial. Since they are unknowledgable in PvP, they wish not to do it, because they know they can't do it. So, in conclusion, I base this my argument on pure arrogance of the human mind.

But then there's the other suggestion. The "Robin Hoods" of America that decide "Hey, we are good enough! Lets go join Europe and help em out!" So now all of our excellent PvPers are gone off to European servers, and we are stuck with the people in Heroes Ascent saying "What is this place?" Once in a while, a good group comes along, but then comes the other problem we have: we want to be better. People in the group that won(and could probably win again) decide to go somewhere else and create another group, because they think they are untouchable. So these untouchables end up screwing up our good PUG groups, which end up killing our favor. And...I guess this would be the end of my 2 cents.

FoxBat · Jan 10, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Well, the few Blizzard guys on the team did come from Starcraft (NOT Diablo), where you do have a "PvE" campaign with a story, then you're supposed to move on to PvP. And most long-term players did, although there were still a lot of compstomps and cooperative UMS maps. There are many reasons why this analogy doesn't work for GvG, partly it is due purely to people's expectations of an RPG, but the two modes are also far more different than in starcraft, and there's also the fact that GW's campaigns are just much longer. ANet should've put a lot more thought into making PvE resemble PvP if this was truely their goal, and this would require vastly improved AI and more balanced and varied skill choices for mobs , but it seems too late for that now though.

lyra_song · Jan 10, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Well they cant so easily remove the favor system, but perhaps include alternate ways to enter UW/FoW?

Maybe you have to fight another team who wants to enter UW/FoW and the winning team gets in?

*runs for cover*

Imagine all the 55s having to fight the trappers!